Agenda and draft minutes

Members of the committee should declare any interests which fall under the following categories:

a)    disclosable pecuniary interests (DPI);

b)    other significant interests (OSI);

c)    voluntary announcements of other interests.

Councillors Butcher, Lockwood and Wing declared that they are all directors on the Board of Oportunitas. They remained in the meeting.

To consider and approve, as a correct record, the minutes of the meeting held on 11 September 2024.

The minutes of the meeting held on 11 September 2024 were submitted, approved and signed by the Chair.

Proposed by Councillor Lockwood

Seconded by Councillor Wing

(Voting: 5 For, Against, Abstentions)

This report includes the summary of the work of the East Kent Audit Partnership (EKAP) since the last Audit and Governance Committee meeting together with details of the performance of the EKAP to the 30^th September 2024.

The report included the summary of the work of the East Kent Audit Partnership (EKAP) since the last Audit and Governance Committee meeting together with details of the performance of the EKAP to the 30^thSeptember 2024.

The Deputy Head of Audit presented the report, highlighting to members the areas found to be working well and the matters giving rise to the Limited Assurance review, and drew attention to the Management Response for Hythe Pool. It was incumbent on EKAP’s duty of care to raise such issues in the report, and it was not unhealthy for the client officer to disagree with the internal audit’s view of risk, this too demonstrates good governance, so that those charged with governance are made aware of the perceived risks. There was an agreed action plan in the report, and progress towards implementing the recommendations will be reported to a future committee meeting.

Members made points including the following:

• With regards to Hythe Pool, could we have an expansion on the officer response?

The Chief Officer for Regulatory and Community Services firstly advised that Hythe Pool will be implementing all recommendations from the audit as far as possible. He advised his opinion that some of the recommendations were not directly linked to the audit scope originally, and some of the critical recommendations were not fully supported. It is felt that some of the risk ratings applied were disproportionate or inflated to the actual risk. Lastly, we provided general commentary about the pool condition, which had developed into audit recommendation, but it is considered that this needed more testing before going into the final report.

With regards to staffing, the report included a control about lifeguarding training, for which the pool was tested and passed. Training was found to be comprehensive. The audit also pointed out that the pool has had to close due to staff shortages, and management should review and risk assess this impact. Unfortunately, there was no reference back to management on this point before it was included in the audit report. If there had been, information could have been given about the steps the pool had taken. The closure of the pool is a safety control, to allow the pool manager to feel enabled to close the pool if there was a shortage of staff available, so as not to put staff or the public at risk. The shortage of lifeguards is a national issue that has affected many leisure centres since the pandemic. The council have advertised permanent posts almost constantly since 2021, and in wider ways including in schools and colleges, and introducing an apprenticeship scheme. Hythe Pool is a deep pool (3m) so not everyone can become a lifeguard there. We did have to close the pool on several occasions which attracted criticism

The Chief Officer for Regulatory and Community Services added that management did agree with many of the risk ratings, but there were some examples they did not understand. He gave an example related to  ...  view the full minutes text for item 20.

In July 2023, Full Council agreed to the recommendations of the Audit and Governance Committee to agree the extension of the Independent member to the Audit and Governance Committee to November 2024, at which point a recruitment exercise would be carried out. However, in early 2025, the Committee will be considering the revised constitution, along with agreeing the 23/24 accounts, it was felt appropriate to retain the experience and knowledge of the current Independent Member, Andy Vanburen, and for his term to be extended for a further period. Andy Vanburen has agreed to remain in post until 31 March 2025, at which point, the situation would be reviewed.

The Committee is therefore asked to recommend to Full Council that Andy Vanburen’s term be extended until 31 March 2025.

In July 2023, Full Council agreed to the recommendations of the Audit and Governance Committee to agree the extension of the Independent member to the Audit and Governance Committee to November 2024, at which point a recruitment exercise would be carried out. However, in early 2025, the Committee will be considering the revised constitution, along with agreeing the 23/24 accounts, it was felt appropriate to retain the experience and knowledge of the current Independent Member, Andy Vanburen, and for his term to be extended for a further period. Andy Vanburen has agreed to remain in post until 31 March 2025, at which point, the situation would be reviewed.

The Committee was therefore asked to recommend to Full Council that Andy Vanburen’s term be extended until 31 March 2025.

Proposed by Councillor Godfrey

Seconded by Councillor Lockwood; and,

Resolved:

1. To receive and note report AuG/24/13

2. To recommend to Full Council that the appointment of Andy Vanburen be extended to 31 March 2025.

 (Voting: 5 For, Against, Abstentions)

This report provides an update to the Corporate Risk Register, last considered by the Audit and Governance Committee on 31 July 2024. It also provides an update on the work to review the Council's Risk Management Policy and Strategy.

This report provided an update to the Corporate Risk Register, last considered by the Audit and Governance Committee on 31 July 2024. It also provided an update on the work to review the Council's Risk Management Policy and Strategy.

Members made points including the following:

• The dashboard makes it so much easier having everything in one place.
• The ‘cost of living’ element could have been retained as this may end up being put back in later on.
• The reference to EES was welcome.
• The report was very thorough and clear. With regards to point C1, organisational capacity, at the last meeting of Full Council the leader said the council is working well. Why are we off target on occupational capacity?

The Interim Director of Corporate Services advised that the workforce went through a rationalisation programme last year, but services were not cut and the demand on services continues to increase year-on-year. The capacity to increase the workforce is reduced and funding is being more and more restricted. Our council tax base doesn’t grow at pace to keep up with pay awards and therefore it is a risk. People aren’t necessarily wanting to join local government and we are finding it harder to recruit. It is an ongoing concern around getting the right skills and keeping existing staff. 

• There was a reference to becoming carbon neutral but not a risk on the impact of climate change. Can we rethink its absence?

The Governance, Performance and Risk Manager advised this was worth considering, but this was difficult as it is quite a broad topic. Given the prominence of the sustainability agenda, there is an opportunity to look more carefully at climate impacts in the new corporate plan, including on core services. This will be taken as an action point.

• There are some specific areas we could think about, for example the impact of climate change on the Romney Marsh and the cost of landslips.
• It would be meaningful to look at which elements of climate change are relevant for the area.
• Can you outline the two risks associated with Otterpool Park?

The Governance, Performance and Risk Manager advised that the C2 risk relates to the delivery of Otterpool Park, and the governance and finance arrangements. The C3 risk is linked to the Section 106 agreement, and until that is in place it will remain quite a high risk.

• Great work, this makes the risks very clear. Hopefully it doesn’t become so onerous that staff are frightened to do their jobs.
• Under section 4, we haven’t seen any of the workings of the corporate governance board, this part feels quite opaque.

The Governance, Performance and Risk Manager explained that this is made up of chief officers and other lead officers, they will look at any emerging risks and make recommendations for changes to the corporate risk register. The changes in the report came from them first, it then goes to the Corporate Leadership Team before coming to the Audit and Governance committee.  ...  view the full minutes text for item 22.

This report provides a summary of Health and Safety activity since the start of the 2024-25 financial year, giving an update on the position reported to the Committee on 31 July 2024.

Councillor Prater, Cabinet Member for Finance and Governance, also advised the Committee that there have been discussions recently around the Customer Access Point, following security incidents involving members of the public. We have security in place and there is a recommendation being progressed that the Customer Access Point shuts an hour earlier. The security of staff is an important safety aspect, and that aspect is being taken into account.

The Governance, Performance and Risk Manager added it was correct to highlightthis and we ought to include that action in the report, however the report being put before the Committee is focused on current audit recommendations. The more comprehensive annual report should take into account any changes made after assessing health and safety risk.

Members made points including the following:

• Do we record incidents involving aggression or threats towards staff?

The Governance, Performance and Risk Manager advised this is something they have tried to make more streamlined. There is a central case management system that flags any reports that get investigated, and this will be managed by the health and safety officer. When reporting on statistics, we should be looking for any trends or frequent incidents rather than just counting them. Currently the report states there have been six incidents across all Council services but not what they are, but it is expected when reporting annually that there will be a list brought to the Committee showing what the incidents were and what has been done about them.

• Can we get some comparators to show whether the numbers are cause for concern?

The Governance, Performance and Risk Manager noted this as an action point to follow up.

Proposed by Councillor Lockwood

Seconded by Councillor Butcher; and,

Resolved:

1.    To receive and note Report AuG/24/15.

This report presents the current position on progress towards achieving the 2024-25 actions set out in the Annual Governance Statement.

This report presented the current position on progress towards achieving the 2024-25 actions set out in the Annual Governance Statement.

Proposed by Councillor Butcher

Seconded by Councillor Wing; and,

Resolved:

1. To receive and note report AuG/24/16

2. To note the progress towards achieving the actions in the Annual Governance Statement (Appendix 1).

(Voting: 5 For, 0 Against, 0 Abstentions)

In accordance with the Accounts and Audit (Amendment) Regulations, the audit of the 2022/23 Accounts has now been completed. The final audit findings in relation to the audit of the 2022/23 Statements of Account are set out within the Auditor’s Audit Findings report attached as Appendix 1. Additionally, an update on the 2023/24 Statement of Accounts is to be provided by the external auditors.

In accordance with the Accounts and Audit (Amendment) Regulations, the audit of the 2022/23 Accounts has now been completed. The final audit findings in relation to the audit of the 2022/23 Statements of Account are set out within the Auditor’s Audit Findings report attached as Appendix 1. Additionally, an update on the 2023/24 Statement of Accounts was provided by the external auditors.

The Chair thanked officers for their work in bringing this report before the Committee.

Members made points including the following:

• When reading through the report, you can see how things have evolved and improved over time.
• Part of the delay in signing off the 2022/23 accounts was caused by the trial balance mapping. Can you provide reassurance that this is now dealt with and the 2023/24 accounts will not suffer these delays?

The Head of Financial Reporting advised the trial balance mapping was how we mapped all our underlying accounts, and each of these rolls into different areas of the statement of accounts. There was difficulty in getting that mapping right and agreed with the auditors. We’ve rolled the mapping forwards and where this was originally taking days, it now takes minutes. We’ve taken what we’ve learned from 2022/23 and that will be applied going forward.

The Key Audit Partner for Grant Thornton gave thanks to the Finance team for their work in finalising the accounts. They advised that the Committee now have a set of accounts that the auditors are happy with and have been through robust technical scrutiny. Grant Thornton are confident that once the 2023/24 accounts are updated, it will be a much smoother process. The Key Audit Partner advised the next steps are the management letter of representation to be approved, and the signing of the 2022/23 accounts. Once those are received, they will issue the opinion for 2022/23. The audit certificate cannot be issued yet due to the objections, the statements of reasons are with the PSAA (Public Sector Audit Appointments) for their review, and Grant Thornton are waiting for them to respond.

Councillor Prater, Cabinet Member for Finance and Governance, also gave thanks to officers and Grant Thornton for their work. The issues experienced must be kept in mind when working on the Council’s new financial management system, and it is important to keep sight of the lessons learned in this process. He highlighted certificates of completion that are still outstanding from 2019/20, and asked if they will come out at the same stage as the 2022/23 ones. The Key Audit Partner confirmed they will all be issued at the same time.

• Could we have an update on journal authorisation?

The Head of Financial Reporting advised we are working with our technology team to resolve the access rights. We have identified the underlying cause, and are now working through the technical detail of how to build the right profile to restrict access rights.

The Engagement Manager for Grant Thornton also updated Members on the 2023/24 statement of accounts. Members made further points  ...  view the full minutes text for item 25.